Podcasting For Lawyers | Feat. Robert Ingalls

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Allison Williams: [00:00:05] Hi, everybody. It’s Allison Williams here, your host of The Crushing Chaos was Law Firm Mentor podcast. Law Firm Mentor is a business coaching service for solo and small law firm attorneys. We help you to grow your revenues, crush chaos in business and make more money.

 

Allison Williams: [00:00:30] Hi everyone, is Allison Williams here, your Law Firm Mentor. And welcome to another episode of The Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast, where today I have a special guest. My guest today is Robert Ingalls and I had the pleasure of meeting Robert and getting to know a little bit about what he does. And his company is really exploding in a space that I personally have a lot of respect for the world of podcasting. He actually has a company, Law Pods, that focuses on creating podcasts for law firms. And as you know, here at Law Firm Mentor, I’m a big proponent of bringing people on that don’t just sell a service, but sell a service that I believe will be specifically tailored to the small law firm experience so that when you get to know the service provider, whether you choose to do something with them or not, you will know that they have taken into account all of the intricacies that come with being a lawyer and all of the regulation that we have as a highly regulated profession. So I’m going to tell you a little bit about Robert, and then I’m going to tell a little bit about our chat. We had a really, really good conversation.

 

Allison Williams: [00:01:34] So Robert is a recovering attorney. He’s a speaker and he’s founder and chief podcast strategist at Law Pods. So Law Pods helps busy attorneys create world-class podcast content that boosts SEO, builds relationships and drives revenue, focus on revenue. They’ve worked with premier law firms, including McGuire, Woods, Blank Rome and the law offices of John T Orcutt. And before he had Law Pods, Robert actually battled anxiety from the pressure of the long hours, the constant conflict of a litigation career. So he gets what it is to be a real lawyer. And when I say real lawyer, I mean someone who was lawyering full time as their career and realized that it was not suited to him as a person. So after he ended up creating a podcast for his law firm, he then went into the business of preparing podcasts for law firm owners because people started seeing in his marketplace that he knows the stuff and you’re going to really see that he knows this stuff, from our conversation.

 

Allison Williams: [00:02:35] We talked a little bit about some of the, the challenges that lawyers have being a highly regulated profession, how we might be resistant to putting ourselves out there if we have not been a public speaker per se by trade, how we can deal with the potential conflicts that arise from having your message out there speaking to your ideal client Avatar, how to cross-market, the various different clips that you will create from a podcast and a whole host more. So this was actually one of that high touchpoint, high value pull-out your notepad type conversations. We got a lot out of it and I hope that you will as well. This is my special guest, Robert Ingalls.

 

Allison Williams: [00:03:16] Robert Ingalls, welcome to the Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:03:20] Allison is such a pleasure to be here.

 

Allison Williams: [00:03:22] So I am really excited to have you on the show because you do something that I personally love. You’re on my podcast and we’re going to talk today about podcasting specifically for lawyers. And I think that one of the challenges that we always have when we bring new marketing ideas to law firm owners is that they think it’s not for them. They don’t see how it’s going to translate to our profession. But you’re a recovering lawyer, so you know that that’s nonsense. So we’re going to talk about that today and a whole host more. But why don’t we start with a little introduction of you? I’m obviously I’ve told the audience about you as a, as a guest, but talk to us a little bit about your journey to founding Law Pods.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:04:04] Sure. It’s probably a little more unconventional than I think a lot of people’s careers are. I went to law school to be a criminal defense attorney, and I was very idealistic. I think like a lot of us have been. And and I didn’t really like law school. I got there and it wasn’t, I wasn’t used to the, the, the environment. You know, I just got there and everyone was smart and competitive. And it was so different than what I’d just been used said and I realized I’d been skating by. And so I didn’t really love law school, but I, you know, I stuck it out. It’s part of my personality like I do things.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:04:42] And then I got out and I opened up a criminal defense practice and started practicing. And it was not long. I mean, within the first year I went, Oh, I don’t know if this is for me. And I was on the appointed list. I was in the county, I was in the appointed list, ended up with a lot of domestic violence work. And being in that courtroom every day told me a little bit about who I am. And I just, I would come home every day with just the burden. So what it felt like to me of just it was I felt I hate to overuse this word, but some days I felt like traumatized by the things I saw, but also the things I had to do, the person I had to be and I had to show up and be the I felt like I was the bad guy in a movie for at least one or two people every single day.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:05:37] And anybody that knows me well knows I don’t like being the bad guy, for better or for worse. I like to be the guy that people like. And, and every day I was doing things that made me feel bad about who I was and they were the right thing to do. I mean, I very much believe that I was doing my job, but I didn’t like the way that made me feel. And there was a lot of that. And so I kind of pivoted about I tried to find other areas. I did general Civil for a number of years, and I love trial, I love talking, I love performing, I love that aspect of it. But it was such a small part of the job, but it also came with dealing with other lawyers. I think that that speaks for itself.

 

Allison Williams: [00:06:14] And now. Wait, wait, wait. My audience is lawyers.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:06:19] So and I am as well.

 

Allison Williams: [00:06:21] Let us be careful and talk about a certain brand of lawyer that you were born with. It’s not our folks.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:06:26] Right. Well, but I think any lawyer listening can, can relate. We know the type of person that you run into more often than you’d like to who just is there for a fight. And, and so that was tough for me. And over a period of years, I kept thinking, what’s wrong with me and why can’t I? Like, everyone seems to have it together when I look around and go to networking events, but I am barely holding on. And I wasn’t at a point in my life where I was ever willing to admit that mental health was something that I could struggle with. And so I really just kind of forced it down and kept trying to figure it out. And during that time period, I had gotten really involved in the marketing of the firm and I had no background in marketing, I’d never took a class, never was interested in it. And but I started running email campaigns and doing our PPC and learning SEO. And then I started a podcast at the firm and it just I was in. I loved it. I mean, I never seriously considered it. It was a thing I could do, like for money, but I loved it. It was the only thing about work that gave me any passion and it didn’t.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:07:38] I would loved stopping practice at a moment in the day and moving to marketing. And that’s the short story for as I decided when I started a family, I was like, My mental health is going to fall apart if I stay here. I kind of looked at that, and at that point, other lawyers in the community had been asking me to help them. Hey, I see you’re doing that. Can you show me how to do that? And it, it took a while for my mindset to properly evolve to a point where I was willing to say, I actually am the expert here. I know what I’m doing and I should be able to do this. And I started doing it for them. It started growing. Other people started seeing it. And that was I got my first client five years ago and we work for several of the largest firms in the world now, and that blows my mind. And so, yeah, that’s the, you can tell I’m a talkative person because that’s the short story for, for where I started and how it how I landed here in front of this microphone.

 

Allison Williams: [00:08:40] Yeah. So I love that story. I love the fact that you are a recovering lawyer because I think a lot of people will identify with the idea that law does not yield a happy existence for a lot of people. Right? So we both are in the business of helping lawyers to create a better life for themselves. And you just happen to do it through helping them with one particular angle, which is the client generation aspect. So let’s talk a little bit about that. How first, let’s go to your personal experience. How were you able to, in creating a podcast, generate traction and actually generate clients from using a podcast as a platform?

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:09:19] Well, I knew that the SEO angle was very helpful. I was trying to figure that out. I was trying to drive traffic and I learned that it’s really a they ask you answer type of model where I’m trying to create content that speaks specifically to the pain points that prospects might be having there on my website. At that point, I feel like they’re kind of mine to lose. I’ve got to create some content that’s going to resonate with them. It’s going to get them past that friction hump. And I had gotten into podcasting as part of my own personal development journey and immediately discovered the power. Just someone can sit down at a microphone, have a conversation, publish it out into the world, and I can find that conversation years later and derive immense value from it.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:10:05] And, and I thought that that has to work here. How could it not? It’s and the generation was shifting. We were seeing that. We were seeing the way that especially the younger generation is kind of leaning towards audio and they’re not just leaning toward it for entertainment, they’re leaning towards it for information because and really what I saw at that time and continues to be true is audio is really exploded because it does what no other form of marketing can do. It sells you time. It doesn’t say stop what you’re doing and read, hold on, stop for a second and look at me while you watch. It says, What are you about to do? I’ll come with you. Press play. Let’s go mow the grass. Let’s go drive to work. Let’s do whatever it is that you want to do. And that felt so powerful to me. And so when I was starting the business, I’d been helping lawyers already and I learned in law. That, you have to focus on something. If you do everything, you’re probably not going to be doing anything that well. It’s really hard to build a brand. And so the idea of helping lawyers was just made perfect sense to me. Like, let’s I’m going to be the guy who does the thing for these people. And I feel like I got a little ahead of myself. But is like as far as why I did it in my own firm was really to focus on providing value for my clients, giving them an extra way to interact with me, get to know me, consume my content. But it also gave me all of this extra ability to create content across platforms. It gave me content to put on my website, right? Right. Some show notes or a blog post to go with it. Maybe point back to other content on my website. I think they might like they could listen, but they could also listen on their podcast players. But from there I could also take all of that content, take some video from it, take some audio from it, take quotes from it and put that all over my social media feeds. So when people go to check me out, they go to Instagram or they go to Facebook, they can see a little bit about who I am. They can see this content that gives them that understanding. Like when somebody goes to your social feeds, they’re usually not there to spend a lot of time. They kind of just want to see who you are and see if you’re up to something like, okay, this person is legitimate, it gives you that legitimacy. And so it allowed me to have all of this content marketing, from what I saw, was a much more minimal investment of my time than it would take me to sit down and write a long-form blog post. And honestly, it was hard for me to force myself to even sit down and do those so frequently they wouldn’t get done. And no, but the podcast was something I enjoyed doing, which I have found in my career lawyers tend to enjoy doing.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:12:44] And I could sit down, I could have a conversation and cut that up however I wanted to, and then turn that into so many things. You know, I’d hired a team to help me, Hey, take this and go do this with it. And, and that was really what I saw the value in is being able to connect with people in a different way, in a way that they wanted to connect. But also, once they’d hear your voice, then you’d sit down and talk to them and they already felt like they knew you a little bit. And they would mention the podcast that they’d learned something and they already, some of them already understood your sense of humor and they qualified themselves by that. They went, Oh, you know, like, I like this. Me and this person will probably get along. And that was so powerful to me. And so that was one of the things that I loved about having it in my law firm. Now, I didn’t really want to talk about the law, so my podcast, maybe the results varied a little bit on there because I would wander into left field sometimes because clearly, it wasn’t the profession I was made for, but it was still I still really was able to see that value in it.

 

Allison Williams: [00:13:49] Yeah. So a lot of the things I was going to ask you, you actually encapsulated in this one beautiful answer that you just gave, especially when you talk about the idea of not necessarily going to the law as the focal point of what you discuss on your podcast, but you’re still connecting with people in a way that people could learn you, like you, get that no lack and trust factor built in that much faster and come in ready to convert. So I saw on your website I rarely do this, by the way, I rarely check out the websites of the people that I have on the show other than just to generally know who they are. But I loved going through your website because you talk about the three P’s of podcasting, right? The planning, the production, and the promotion and what I, what I heard in your last answer when you were talking about how you connect with people through the podcast, I really it triggers for me the question about the planning, right? Because as a former criminal defense attorney, your adversary was always the state. So your position something I always tell our clients, you need to take a position. Your position is going to be defense-oriented.

 

Allison Williams: [00:14:57] But what about those different practice areas where a person could switch sides, for lack of a better phrase? Right? If you’re a family law attorney, you could be representing the husband in divorce today and the wife and divorce tomorrow. Or if you are a civil litigator today, you could be representing a small business. Tomorrow, you could be suing a small business. So how does one as a lawyer put their voice, their message, their stance out into the world when they might have a more diverse clientele or a more diverse population of people that would be eligible for their services?

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:15:32] Sure. And I think that comes back to the, the first questions we’re asking ourselves when we start a business is who am I doing it for? And that is that’s the content we’re making. And if we’re, if we’re doing some plaintiff’s work, if we’re doing some defense work, I think one of the things I would ask if it was if I was having a call was someone asking me that question is I would say, is there one that you want more of? Is there a specific. Who do you want? Who is the client? Who’s your ideal client? They walk in the door and you want 15 more of them. Who is that? That’s the person I’m using making my marketing for. And because I want to find what I do and I do it in my own business, I find the kind of client I like to work with, and I do my best to duplicate them. And so when I’m making content, I’m thinking about that ideal client. And if I have two types of ideal clients, I’m making content for both of them.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:16:24] And I don’t think that I mean, I’m sure that there’s areas where I could be proven wrong here, but I don’t think that really will create too much of a conflict. If I’m representing mom here, representing dad here, I think a lot of the questions there’s going to be a lot of overlap in the questions that they have, especially process-oriented overlap. And so I think that the, the ability to have to know what kind of content I want to create tends to be one of the easiest things that we do. In the beginning, it’s a question people always say, Well, what will I talk about? And that six months into the relationship, we’ve got the next 50 episodes mapped out and that question is long gone.

 

Allison Williams: [00:17:03] So what do I talk about is a great fear. And even when you’re talking about blogging or video content, there’s kind of the am I going to tap out on what to say? And so when you’re working with a client and you’re really helping them dial in their message and who they’re going after, that ideal client Avatar, how do you help them to create what will be those next 50 episodes or however many into the future in order to really reach that that ideal prospect?

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:17:29] Well, it starts with who is the ideal prospect? What do they want to know? And that tends to be pretty easy in the beginning, because most lawyers, unless they’re really just starting out or have just pivoted, have had hundreds, if not thousands of conversations with the type of person that they would like to work with. And so they’ve been asked every question you can imagine. They’ve been asked every variation of those questions. They understand the little wrinkles that keep people up at night. And those are all episodes in themselves, because that’s the things that when they showed up to our website, they were fearful about, they were worried about, and that we want to make we want to give them answers. We want to be seen as the person who knows we were the authority on it. We’re going to help you. You can you can trust us because we know what we’re talking about we’ve been there before.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:18:19] But then we also want to be thinking, what are people searching for us? When people go into Google, what are they typing that leads them to our website? Most attorneys know this. They have an SEO team. We know what people are searching. We’re making episodes around that. We also think about what kind of content are we already ranking for? Do we have an article or a handful of articles that are ranking really well that we’d like to boost? Do we have a handful of articles that are kind of middling right now that we think if we boost it a little bit, could really help? And the podcast is really unique and you can take some of the content from your podcast and use it in your existing SEO content. We do that with a number of our clients right now, is we’ll make podcast episodes about certain topics that whether it’s things clients are asking, things that we’re trying to drive search with, and then we’ll take some of that content like the video and the transcript, put that on an existing page and see if we can boost that content up a little bit. And and so we’re always thinking about that. We like to work with the SEO teams and think what kind of content should we be doing right now, what is performing best, what is going to be the most value that we can use to drive the site?

 

Allison Williams: [00:19:35] Yeah. So you referenced earlier this, this idea of using the podcast in different places and you just hearken back to it. So when someone is kind of thinking through a podcast as a portion of their marketing plan, right, they’re going to have the podcast as kind of the pillar content, and then that content is going to go out to different places. How do you take it and alter it so it fits different platforms so you know where it’s going to get the most bang for your buck? Like where is it in the line of, of, of a, I guess, nurturing from point of initial awareness to the point of sale where you’re really getting your most bang for your buck.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:20:13] Sure. And there’s a lot of strategy there in the beginning and thinking, okay, where who is it for and making the podcast initially. But then we’re thinking, okay, now we do want to repurpose that and we want to use it in different places. And depending on where you are right now, where you’re performing well, if you’re on LinkedIn, that might be the spot for you. You want to be thinking about content that performs well on LinkedIn. What do we use there square videos this length of time, captions on the video. And then if we’re thinking a lot of lawyers are leaning towards TikTok, now that’s shorter form content. You’re not trying to get something quite as long out there. These are people that are if you don’t catch them in the first couple of seconds, boom, they’re gone.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:20:54] And so you’re thinking about putting more on the screen so they understand in a glance what they’re looking at. And you do obviously you’re going to want that in vertical. If you start showing up on platforms with a landscape video that’s now that tiny in the middle of the screen, you probably lost people before they ever read anything. And so you want to be showing up natively on those platforms with content that’s going to resonate right there. And with those really quick ones like TikTok, you want to be doing something people can watch pretty quickly. So maybe take a 62nd clip, cut it down. Boom, boom, boom. Put them all together and clip it into a way that’s really quick, maybe have a cliffhanger at the end that makes them want to go. I really need to know more about that.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:21:31] Whereas a different platform like LinkedIn, that would be a little unprofessional to do something kind of like that fast. You might want to be a little bit more professional. That depends on your practice area, the type of clients that you’re used to serving. Who is that? Who’s your listener, what resonates with them? But the different platforms you’re showing up on are going to be different. The way you interact on Twitter should not be the same way you interact on Instagram. It’s a different platform, and that’s part of the strategy in the beginning is thinking about that. So if you it’s it’s fine. It’s great to have a podcast and then to use it all in that platform. But sometimes I think people can, if they’re not careful, run into that situation where they’re just like fire hosing the same content everywhere all the time. And I don’t know that that’s going to be quite as valuable.

 

Allison Williams: [00:22:17] Yeah, so there’s a lot of strategy, like you said, that’s involved in this, and it’s very clear that you’ve thought through how to maximize the reach from a podcast perspective. Once you have that asset that is the video or audio recording. But of course we here at Law Firm Mentor, we talked to the real lawyer, right? The lawyer that may not necessarily have all of their stuff together. And a lot of lawyers have that thought running through their head. You know, listen, I’m not show worthy, right? I don’t have the best make up or the best, or the best beautiful radio voice. Right. I have a face only a mother could love. Whatever it is. The story that’s running through our head will often stop us from marketing. So how do you get a lawyer to a place where they say, I can do this. Notwithstanding the fact that I might not have been the most brilliant trial lawyer, I might not have the pizzazz that I think is the sellable thing that I see on other podcasts.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:23:14] I mean, I get that. I, you know, I think I kind of hit on it earlier that I had to develop my own mindset to do what I do. I was just didn’t feel like it was not for me. It’s other people do that. And, and so I get it. But at the same time, I think Nike really does have the most beautiful slogan ever. Because it’s so simple, but it means so much. You just have to do it. You really do. You have to. Gary Vee, For as much as some people might not love him, he really has his finger on the pulse. And he talks about this issue a lot of all this resistance that people have to creating content and they overthink it. They’ve got to get the right camera. They’ve got to get the right microphone. If I just had the right piece of software. No, there’s I mean, I’m this, this right in front of me. Most people have one of these. There is fewer, few cameras that you can buy that are going to give you as good a video as this will. And you grab that. Selfie stick. That’s it. These two things. And you’re making better content than most people are, right this second, even if you just use the microphone on the camera once a week for 30 seconds, put it on your desk. Talk. Talk about a subject. Talk about something, Real quick to the point, whatever. And just start doing that. That’s super low barrier to entry. Anyone can do it. Get it onto your feed. Every Monday you talk about the five things you should do if you get pulled over, whatever. And, and it really is that easy to get started. And once you get started, I can attest to it. It becomes a lot easier.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:24:54] You start to go, Oh, Ok. that’s not so bad. I don’t really need to have makeup on every single day. I don’t need to look like Kelly Ripa every single day. I can just show up and provide valuable content because that’s at the end of the day, that’s what people want. They want to get value. What is in it for them? That’s why they watch. That’s why they listen. They’re not listening for you. You are not the hero of their story. They really, at the end of the day, don’t care about you. They care about themselves and what you can do to help them. So give them content that will help them and stop worrying about yourself and know it’s very easy to say, but it’s, you know, maybe it’s anecdotal, but it worked for me. It really is as simple as just starting to do the thing and getting out there and not letting yourself get caught up with all, all of the things that you just described.

 

Allison Williams: [00:25:41] Yeah, well, I’m sure we all know it’s not just anecdotal because if nothing else, we all have heard the stat over and over again that it takes 6 to 12 touchpoints. Some people will project that it takes much more than that in today’s glutted marketplace to really reach people and of course, a high level, high quality. I know my stuff. I have a great personality. I’m here to care and provide service is going to land for the right person for your business.

 

Allison Williams: [00:26:05] But as we kind of talk through this, the thing that is coming up is, you know, you clearly know this stuff, right? But there is even if we get past the barrier of entry and we start and you convince someone who’s listening to this podcast, just do it. Just get on out there and put your information out there. There is the natural tendency of lawyers to be perfectionistic, to want a high-quality product going out to represent their brand. How do you take that selfie stick recording on the, on the cell phone and uplevel it into something where a person says, Wow, this is a high-quality show. I’m tuning in every week because I know I’m going to get great value. I’m going to be interested the guests, the, the, the host, all of that really resonates with me that I’m just learning from this person and they’re cool and I want more. How do you get it there?

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:26:53] Well, I mean, ultimately you have to think about investing in the product. And I think that’s true for anything is you’re either going to bring someone on who’s going to help you with it, who knows what they’re doing, or you’re going to outsource the work because everything you just said matters. And if you’re trying to practice law and network and do all your other business development, keep the firm running whatever your tasks are, and then you try to become a full-time podcast producer, you’re going to be in a mess. It’s going to be really difficult. And frankly, what I learned a terrible use of your time because any business coach I think will tell you you should never do anything in your business that you have your this is your hourly rate. I have my hourly rate. I know exactly what it is. Any task in my business that I can pay significantly less or even a little less than that hourly rate, someone else does it.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:27:48] And when you are handling all these little tasks and teaching yourself how to edit a podcast and then going and posting it on your own website, I mean, in the beginning, I get it. You’ve got more time sometimes than you have money and you’re just trying to hustle. I get that. But once you’re established and you’re choosing this as a marketing channel that you want to invest in, you have to bring in help, whether that’s freelancers that are doing part of it for you, whether it’s an entirely outsourced team, whether you’re going to hire someone to in the marketing department to run that in order to get a quality product, you’re going to need to bring in some help. And that’s I think it’s the way to do it, because when people come to this product, you know, if you’re putting out a professional podcast, I’m not saying that little 32nd hit that you’re doing on your phone, those are great. But if you’re trying to put together a cohesive podcast strategy that’s going to turn into repurpose content that you really want to use as kind of a cornerstone of your content marketing strategy. When people show up to that and it sounds like you’re in a wind tunnel. And to people, you know what I’m talking about.

 

Allison Williams: [00:28:55] Ah, no comment.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:28:57] And, and it’s two people talking into the same microphone and it’s echoing all over the place. And it’s not there’s no edits. It’s just stream of consciousness. And there’s there’s a lot of meandering and all of that stuff. Okay, you’re learning. But an editor should tighten that, right up. Come in there. Boom. Cut that, cut that, bring it together. Make it a really nice, cohesive listening strategy. You have an intro and an outro that has music and professional voiceover or even your own voice if you’re if you feel comfortable doing that, but having some kind of professional audio branding. So when people listen to it, they go, Okay, these people are legit. Same thing with your website. If people land on your website and it looks like it was built in 1997, it says something. It says, I don’t know. I don’t know about these people. I know it certainly says that to me. And so our websites are storefront and everything that we do. Shows how much effort it reflects on us.

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:29:58] And when, when it does sound really bad like that. And, you know, I don’t there’s a lot of firms I see do that. I mean, a lot really big firms will have that same problem we just described. And I think it’s at the end of the day for some of those firms, I think it really negatively reflects upon them. You know, I’m a big proponent of just go do something. It doesn’t have to be perfect. But there’s a line where, come on, there’s a there’s a there’s a certain standard we want to get to when we are trying to do something of value like that. And so I’m a big believer in if this is going to be part of your strategy, that you can do it well. And it’s not that hard, though, to do it well. If you get the right team in place, the right person in place who has the right experience and knowledge. Doing something like this isn’t that difficult. And it’s really not that expensive compared to a lot of other marketing angles. And that’s why you’re seeing it grow. Consumers want it, but it’s also one of the easier ways to create content and repurpose that content across different channels.

 

Allison Williams: [00:31:00] And the beauty of it is that it really is capitalizing on a strength that a lot of lawyers already have. Right. Especially if you were a litigator, you had to speak for a living. Right. You had to condense your message down to sell it to someone in a courtroom. Even if you were a transactional attorney or or someone who had a hodgepodge practice of both. Communication is something that is our stock and trade.

 

Allison Williams: [00:31:22] So. Robert, you’ve just given us so much value here. But the one thing that I always like to have people walk away with when they listen to this podcast is the great resource that is the guest that is coming on. So if someone wants to learn more about Law Pods and they actually want to investigate whether or not a podcast is for them, how do they get a hold of you and what should they do?

 

Robert Ingalls: [00:31:43] So first you can always email me directly at Robert@lawpods.com. I am always happy to chat with people about anything I do. I appear and talk about mental health a lot too, so I’ve always got my email out there. Please get in touch with me. But if you type Law Pods anywhere, if you type it in LinkedIn you’re going to find us Instagram, Facebook, the web LawPods.com We, we thought about that very early when we were naming ourselves and we got all of the channels. So if you go looking for us, you type those letters, you’re going to find us.

 

Allison Williams: [00:32:13] All right, great stuff. Robert Ingles of Law Pods.com Recovering lawyer, CEO of a fantastic podcast, production planning and promotion agency that can help you to create a podcast if that is what you want to do for your law firm. I highly recommend that you suggest that this be a strategy for your team. By the way, I’m not just saying that because I happen to like Robert. I have met him very recently. But as you guys know, you’re listening to The Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast, and I will tell you, it is the number one way that we have found that people will learn about what we do, get interested and ultimately become our clients. So with that big shout out to Robert Ingalls, thank you so much for the value that you bring and everyone, thank you again for tuning in to another episode of The Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast. I’m Allison Williams from Law Firm Mentor. See you on our next show.

 

Allison Williams: [00:33:09] Thank you for tuning in to the Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast to learn more about today’s show and take advantage of the resources mentioned. Check out our show notes and if you enjoy today’s episode, take a moment to follow the podcast wherever you get your podcast and leave us a rating and review. This helps us to reach even more law firm owners from around the country who want to crush chaos in business and make more money. I’m Allison Williams, your Law Firm Mentor everyone. Have a great day.